Talk:Harland Ross
Hey Florida, I guess the first thing about Ross we should write is his early life. Focus on who he is by describing how he grew up. So from the pages I used to get info on Ross, Hidalgo, People's Legion, and Two-Gun Billy, I gathered that Ross was born in Mexico on the border near Fort Brown. He left home at seventeen and returned three years late to find his girlfriend had become a slave. The three years between and the five year after his return but before Hidalgo (I guess) would be considered his early career and would fit the time frame for his adventures as a prize fighter, brahmin drover, bandit, and all that jazz. As far as Ross's childhood I don't know what you pictured, but I thought he would have lived on a ranch or outside a small town with loving parents, maybe siblings or uncle/grandfather characters around as well. Harland could have gotten his sense of justice from his hard-working father who he spent a lot of time with helping with crops or chores. Harland being a juvenile wouldn't have realized how influential his father's teaching would be till he was twenty five. Perhaps because he didn't think a lot about his father's words so he lolly-gagged a lot or rebelled against his parents. And maybe he and Carmen could have developed a relationship like Forest Gump and Jenny. They met as children (maybe she grew up in town or nearby ranch?) and became friends, as time went on they both developed feeling for each other. Maybe a third party disapproved, either Ross's parents or Carmen's maybe, or someone else for that matter :P... This escalated to open conflict but Ross wasn't a killer yet, so at seventeen he left and would return as a legend and win the respect of the third party and marry Carmen or something. Anyway, if you like my idea or don't, could you let me know in this talk page or on mine what the details should be that'd be cool. I would have done all this faster (like Friday faster) but I live in a county, so my internet is like that commercial where the computers pop up and down at that office setting and the guy asks "How will I get work done?" and the lady says, "In bursts. (bla bla bla) You gotta work quick." Sorry for the delay on all this, it was fun working on it though. Hope we can get more done faster now. PS: I plagiarized from Hidalgo and the other pages just to fill the content voids for now! I plan to put it in different words once we figure out what to say. If you don't want that I can delete the plagiarism, wouldn't be a problem. Musiekutsueki (talk) 20:11, July 20, 2014 (UTC) Yeah, we'll re-write those copied sections to reflect his involvement in it better. But what I'm thinking is this: we go with the idea that Matamoros is a small cattle town across the river from Fort Brown. The two establishments are interconnected. Ross' family is Texan but they live on the Mexican side of the river because that's where they got land, thus Ross grew up there and met Carmen as a child like you said since she was the daughter of another rancher. I'm thinking things actually good for them, the couple is liked by each set of parents and their marriage could mean a merging of two smaller ranches into a better sized one. But Ross is a man who has not just integrity but an ambition, that desire to have more. He isn't happy with the idea of ranching forever, being a slave to the land and the cattle and while the combined Huerta-Ross ranch would be successful and give the couple a good income as soon they inherit it, he wants to amount to more. Thus being young and ambitious at seventeen (despite Carmen's pleading otherwise), he goes out to seek his fortune on a grand cattle drive. The premise is that the two big cattle ranching groups in Tamaulipas, San Fernando and Valle Hermoso (who occasionally fight each other in range wars) have this grand idea that they are going to get a herd of ten thousand beeves and drive it south all the way to Nicaragua. This is because Nicaragua is mostly unified at this time due to the fact that the Nicaraguan government had an inkling this would happen, has an enclave-like remnant group of their military (lacking all the cool gadgets), and Nicaragua was glossed over in bombings. The drive stands to be the largest in post-War history and among the largest in all of history. It needs a lot of young men and stands to make them all rich as the Nicaraguan government promises to pay in gold to the sum of two hundred pesos a head. That's two million pesos, each drover stands to make close to ten thousand, enough to buy enough land to make the Ross-Huerta Ranch the largest in the Matamoros-Fort Brown area. Ross signs up and spends three years going 1600 miles there and back so 3200 together. He gets back loaded, having saved all his money and then finds out that just two weeks before he returned, a comanchero raid took Carmen and she is presumed dead. He goes crazy, he says if he had married her and been there to protect her, she would be alive. He leaves town in shambles and starts to wander, thus beginning his odyssey as he drifts from town to town as far north as Louisiana and as far south as the ruins of Mexico City as he does pretty much anything to stay alive. Then he goes into Hidalgo and we got it from there. What do you think? Any ideas on that? Florida Born 77 (talk) 21:02, July 20, 2014 (UTC) All of that sounds really cool. But I think the cattle drove should be a hard time in Ross's life. There would've had to have been a lot of buzz about the World's Biggest Brahmin Drove so every raider who heard about it (The border states, Mexico, the countries between, and Nicaragua at LEAST) would try to steal some of the score right? So maybe that drove could be action packed and filled with detailed battles and cold campfire song filled nights. Also, based on what you said about his ambition I think Ross, being seventeen to eighteen, when he completed his journey would be the type to spend a lot (not percentage wise) to celebrate his success. And about his family and the ranching, also sounds good. So about his odyssey, he spends 5 years traveling from Mexico City to Louisiana before arriving in Hidalgo, Texas. So about a checklist of where he went in order and then figure out the story? Ross spent 3 years in Central America to return home and become a broken man, if I were him I would have been done with Mexico and go to (like you said) Louisiana first then travel back down to Mexico City then back up, passing through Hidalgo (to visit home??). Here's a list with some Major possible pitstops, not all (chronological order- but could be flipped around a little) Texas (following the coast- leaving) -Fort Brown -The Lexxx -Corpus Christi -Houston Louisiana (eastbound) -The Big Easy (Maybe known to Texans as "The Big East") Texas (returning) -Austin -San Antonio (I really want him to visit hear because I want to write a couple pages around this area) Mexico (heading south then heading north) -Laredo (followed route 35 from San Antonio) -Mexico City -Hidalgo Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:05, July 22, 2014 (UTC) Alright so since this is a co-lab let's split this up logically. He goes on his drive, goes south, and then north and then south again and hits Hidalgo. I say two years in Mexico and three years north. My idea is simple since you have a San Antonia plan, I take the Mexican part of the journey and the drive, you give him whatever adventures you think seem logical in Texas and write that part of the odyssey, sound good? Florida Born 77 (talk) 17:05, July 22, 2014 (UTC) I'm working on a map using the new wikia feature, I thought you might find it helpful: the map.--OvaltinePatrol (talk) 20:41, July 22, 2014 (UTC) That's pretty slick, thanks! Anyway some of the places in Tamaulipas could end up there? Or is it strictly limited to the U.S. of A? Florida Born 77 (talk) 20:54, July 22, 2014 (UTC) :I hope to add every fanon location, by and by. If you can edit it, feel free to help.--OvaltinePatrol (talk) 21:02, July 22, 2014 (UTC) Ok. I'll try to figure her out. Any thought to that Super Mutant idea I pitched on your talk? Florida Born 77 (talk) 21:13, July 22, 2014 (UTC) :Hadn't yet noticed. I'll look later.--OvaltinePatrol (talk) 21:23, July 22, 2014 (UTC) Oh OK, I added the places, kind of hard 'cause that map service doesn't show the towns in Mexico, had to guesstimate. Florida Born 77 (talk) 21:28, July 22, 2014 (UTC) :I had Google Maps in another window side-by-side.--OvaltinePatrol (talk) 23:05, July 22, 2014 (UTC) Sounds good. I'll get brain storming ASAP. So, I'm going to Philly for a regatta this weekend but I have weekdays available (except Tuesday). So I'll try to have a draft, or more realistically, an outline of some of Ross's adventures by next Thursday or Friday (it depends on when I leave for Canada). I hope that's good, Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:27, July 23, 2014 (UTC) Perfect. Florida Born 77 (talk) 01:59, July 23, 2014 (UTC) Hey Florida, I was wondering where you would put Ross where my side picks up. I skipped day one on my outline but I assumed you'd put him in Matamoros as his big return after so much time just to find out about Carmen. If not though, may you please tell me of his last adventure in Mexico before he crossed the border? Musiekutsueki (talk) 18:33, July 27, 2014 (UTC) He learns about Carmen as soon as he gets off the drive and goes south. His last stop before Texas is in Ramirez. A little cattle town, he got chased out of there, what happened is that he encountered a caravan on the side of the road outside of town and scavenged it as all the people in it were dead. Well he goes into town and starts selling some of the goods and he does good until he tries to sell off a ring that he scavenged off the caravan and somebody recognizes it. Turns out the caravan was from Ramirez and the people in town think he raided it where as he only scavenged it. He barely makes it across the Rio Grande with his life. Florida Born 77 (talk) 19:29, July 27, 2014 (UTC) Thanks mate. Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:59, July 28, 2014 (UTC) I have another question, when and where does Ross find out about Carmen? You said he knew before getting to Ramirez, so I wrote he crossed the border and headed to the Lexxx to find her. He arrived and could only find one lead, a large comanchero gang recently stopped at the Lexxx, purchased some women, and headed to Houston, Texas. So Ross ventures there only to find out the gang shot up some outskirts of the radioactive city and moved on. Ross eventually found the gang and saw Carmen, a gunfight broke out and Ross killed almost a dozen men before clearing the camp. He finds out who he though was Carmen was just some girl who let free, he leads her to safety and she says some kind words. With Ross distraught over having nothing gained he then begins to wander east with no drive or goal, occasionally stopping a small crime or accepting an odd-job in a bar. PS: Did you write about him being a prize-fighter? I was going to add that in New Orleans if there weren't any plans for it. PSS: My idea was Ross didn't want to travel anymore after reaching Louisiana and bought an apartment after spending a few nights in various locations. Bla bla bla, Ross stops a fight in a bar while working as a bouncer type character and a trainer recognizes the potential and convinces Harland to box. After a few months Ross has a real name but gets badly beat and injured after his opponent cheats (stabbing? drugs? blackmail?). After this Harland realized his time there was over and turned back west. Musiekutsueki (talk) 22:28, July 29, 2014 (UTC) Well as soon as the drive gets back in late 2264, early 2265 he goes back to find Carmen is gone. Then he goes southwards looking for her and thinking over his life and turns around at Mexico city to go back north after his career as a bandito doesn't go that well. He goes to Ramirez, gets run out of Ramirez around 2266/2267 and goes up Texas to Louisiana. Also New Orleans seems like the prime place for him to be a prize fighter, that's a really good idea, I like it! Florida Born 77 (talk) 22:50, July 29, 2014 (UTC) Thanks Florida. So now that I know Ross's business in Mexico, I am now hoping you could help me fill a plot hole in my story. I started with Ross finding out Carmen in missing and going to the Lexxx to find her, he's pointed to Houston where a large group of comancheros are headed. But you said Harland headed south to find her, you have any ideas how to keep this section without it being stupid? If Ross spent a year or so wandering all the way to Mexico City to find her then giving up, why cross Mexico again just to walk another 100 miles to the Lexxx? Or would my story be better if the Lexxx was cut from it, I'm having trouble on how to fix this as I'm focusing on the leap from Houston to New Orleans- then back to San Antonio and his involvement in the war between the Mexican Militia and the Lone Star Army (confederates). Sorry to keep bothering you with more questions, it seems like your writing my story for me. I do appreciate all the help though, really, thanks. Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:09, July 31, 2014 (UTC) I ain't writing this story, brother. You are, I ain't penned a single sentence of his biography, being quite busy on Jean-Napoleon and Tamaulipas. Like I told you when I started, I wasn't planning on doing this guy anytime soon. But this is an easy fix, Harland goes south and doesn't find anything. He gives up, he doesn't care anymore. He doesn't have the nerve to kill himself but if he dies its irrelevant to him, he becomes a comanchero but his gang got wiped out in Mexico City so he became a prospector, his only friend being the road. Once he gets north of the border he hears tell of a comanchero I'll say his name is Enrico Pizana selling slaves from an old raid at the Lexx. Pizana was the comanchero suspected of leading the Matamoros raid so he goes north hoping, praying that Carmen is there. The trail essentially got warm from luck, but then it turns out to be nothing. Also, you ain't bothering me, I'm glad if nothing else that you ain't bothered with my lack of writing anything on this to be honest. Florida Born 77 (talk) 01:20, July 31, 2014 (UTC) Well that is comforting. I haven't gotten super far with Harland either but I'll have an update tomorrow, or Friday if the world ends tomorrow. Thanks for the fix FB, good luck with your current pages as well. :) Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:46, July 31, 2014 (UTC) OK so I have all of the story up to the Lexxx done (plus some points on the outline). But it is a lot of content, I don't think I should post it on the talk page because it would be ridiculously long. Any idea where I could post this on the site? Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:12, August 1, 2014 (UTC) Well you could post it on the page and I'll just write the stuff in before it. Florida Born 77 (talk) 02:49, August 1, 2014 (UTC) I added from Ross's crossing of the border to the moment before he arrives in Houston. Tell me what you think, I personally want to trim it down because I think its lengthy. Musiekutsueki (talk) 02:58, August 3, 2014 (UTC) I think it looks great, man. Not really sure if slavers would keep the names of the slaves sold on the Lexx (I don't think they care) and I think we should put some more emphasis on how he knew Pizana's name but I'll handle that part. He'll know that in Mexico. Florida Born 77 (talk) 05:23, August 3, 2014 (UTC) I agree with you about the Lexxx. But I read the page and it said (either in "culture" or "economy"?) that the slavers have good transaction logs because the same slaves often are bought and re-sold over and over. Musiekutsueki (talk) 18:39, August 12, 2014 (UTC) Hey again. As I write Ross's story, I feel it is very sad and Johnny Cash's "Hurt" keeps coming to mind because of how sad it is, not pathetic, but quite literally sad :'(. Anyway, he has quite the happy ending so I wonder if this song would be appropriate to have this song as Ross's theme... or perhaps there could be two audio files in the page. Not really sure, anyway, what are your thought Florida? PS: I am writing "Houston" and it is almost done. Should be up before the end of the week. Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:46, September 23, 2014 (UTC) Here is kinda how I imagined Ross at Pizana's camp near Houston. Musiekutsueki (talk) 02:44, October 13, 2014 (UTC) Diamondbacks Hey guys, whoever sees this first get back to me, I'm planning a group called the Diamondbacks. Basically they're a militia fighting in the Northwestern Corridor to restore peace and order to the land. They are currently the fifth major player in the fighting in the corridor (the other four being the 33rd, People's Legion, confederates and the unnamed cartel I intend to make). Mind in Harland runs into them? the Diamondbacks aren't really bad guys but they aren't really good guys, they want to restore law and order, end slaving and so on but they're also in it to grab territory. So let me know when you get the chance. CaptainCain (talk) 20:43, January 8, 2015 (UTC) Fo sho'. I guess I'm running the show, and definitely you can. I this happening at 1 of 5 points in Harland's story. 1) Sometime before he leaves home at 17 in 2261, although this would be tricky as he was really just a ranch hand and never ventured out of Matamoros, accept to maybe Fort Brown 2) After returns from Nicaragua and Carmen is missing, he goes south to Mexico City to find her then heads north back to Matamoros, you could add this during the end of his trip although it would his path would be kind of wack as he ends of up Ramirez right before crossing back 3) After he travels north to New Orleans and (heading back home) stops by in San Antonio to aid the revolution (to be written), he could walk past Matamoros heading west and swing back through the Corridor 4) Some kind of post-story adventure after he takes of Hidalgo, like an epilogue (although I feel that's insulting to you- I don't mean for your story to be an unneeded add on, bad word choice on my part) OK, so that's only 4 ways but what do you think? '--Musiekutsueki (talk) 23:47, January 16, 2015 (UTC)' I believe the interaction with the Diamondbacks would be best wherever you see to place it. Also is this an invite to join the Co-lab? CaptainCain (talk) 04:03, January 17, 2015 (UTC) Absolutely it's an invite. FB, unfortunately, hasn't been active for a while (RIP). So some help would been awesome, and I think the Diamondbacks would best be placed after Harland returns home the 2nd time after looking for Carmen and heads further north... then turning around in the Big Easy and meandering through San An. So, emotionally and such I haven't figured how Harland is: I figure super-proud of winning in San An, or depressed (again) because he fought a war (PTSD). And if you want to take FB's job of his time in Mexico that'd be great. FB said something about, Harland returns home from the Great Nicaraguan Cattle Drive (possibly rich, but many returned poorer then before they left) and finds Carmen (his love) had been abducted by Enrica Pizana (who Harland already know somehow as a powerful slaver nothing like De Santa or Caesar). Harland pursues south and gets all the way to Mexico City (in under a year) and becomes a train robber on the way (but later in the adventure). He heads north after this, depressed, as he couldn't find Carmen and his gang was mostly killed off in a failed heist. He makes it to just outside Ramirez when he finds a caravan, the merchants dead, he loots the caravan and sell the wears in town. Someone recognizes a ring and thinks Harland killed their friend, he run out of town with nothing and cross the border. That's where I take over. So you can let Harland do whatever in year-round trip to Mexico City and back. PS: If you have any ideas... let me know, don't even hesitate. '--Musiekutsueki (talk) 04:40, January 18, 2015 (UTC)' Alright, i'm just trying to follow what you and FB were planning here and I feel like there ought to be a bit more background information. First off, What is going on in San Antonio? The Big Easy and how would my section factor into this? Would it be after the Aftermath section? I can only make assumptions. Let me know Musie as I'd like to help with this page and help it get completed. CaptainCain (talk) 19:59, January 18, 2015 (UTC) Also just a quick note, the Mexican Militia and Lone Star Army, that seems an awful lot like what the New Confederate States of America is going to be in Laredo. Perhaps we could find another route to take with them? Naturally I'd like to hear what they're about before we go switching them about. CaptainCain (talk) 20:03, January 18, 2015 (UTC) To address all of that, um... Background info: Harland was born outside Matamoros, Tamaulipas in 2244. He lived in small ranching community; they lived far enough from Matamoros to avoid the prevalent crime, but close enough to trade and meander through within a day. Ross had a loving family and a stern, respectable father who taught him many basic skills. He grew up with Carmen Huerta who lived nearby, as they became teenagers they became intimate and both families loved the idea and arranged a marriage. Ross, being 17 by now, didn't like having his life laid out in front of him- being a poor rancher and father life, Ross wanted wealth for his small town and family. Despite his love and happiness with Carmen, he left her, in 2261 to seek fame and fortune and promised to return home after this. He didn't leave without a plan though, Ross had heard the stories of the cattle drive heading to Nicaragua. He joined the band of some 300 cattlemen, cooks, merchants, and guards. Harland lives that adventure and manages to make it home, with some money. He learns Carmen was captured by Pizana and forced into slavery. Harland chases after him moving south and I already explained from there. The Big Easy: (This is before San An) Ross has already returned home from Mexico City, broken and a failure. He crossed the border and moved east in search of a purpose. Finally Ross reaches New Orleans and The Royaume. Harland becomes a famous prize fighter, winning 7 fights in a row and only losing 4 matches in his whole career. He lose his first match, but then won 1... His fame is the root cause for the setup of the boxing league in New Orleans. Ross feels pride in his accomplishment but it doesn't fill the void completely and when he finally gets to the title fight against a racist, cheating man from Virginia, Ross loses. Everyone expected Ross's rugged, honest demeanor to beat the racist's tricks and bad facial hair. Ross's loss is an act of shame and he leaves town soon after, many people in town think he died though. Ross then passes through San An. Ross heads back to Matamoros, but before he does he swings west and heads back through the Northern Corridor, this is where your story comes in. San Antonio (San An), The Mexican Militia (MM), and the Lone Star Army (LSA): The MM were founded roughly 2200 after the emergence of La Ciudadela and their expulsion and hanging of many famous comancheros. The MM loosely came together to keep La Ciudadela's small force from killing them. They got more organized and pretty much became a Mongol Horde: nomading around and raiding anybody they liked. Within a decade the MM expanded as open towns pledged allegiance to the MM and soon San An was purged of anyone who didn't like the MM. As their power expanded so did their resistance from small towns who had that Texas spirit to fight. The Lone Star Army is based off the refugee warriors from the Lone Star neighborhood who were ejected from their homes after the MM takeover. The LSA wandered around trying to gather support meanwhile looking for a new home. They found it the Gov't Canyon State Natural Area (GCSNA). Roughly 20 mi from the MM capital. These two squabble for power, the LSA being the undermanned but well trained force, the MM being unorganized but outnumber the LSA greatly. By 2267 the fighting has blown into a war as the LSA finally felt ready to fight with a new general and rallied support from the outlying towns. Once Ross wanders through San An he is caught in the fight for the capital. He is present from the very beginning of the siege to the Battle for the Tower of the Americas a.k.a. the Battle of the Americas over a month later. I figure the LSA definitely does sound a lot like the Second Confederacy and is suppose to be a Confederate style group so I'd say the LSA would ask the SC for help and could possibly become a proxy to it. CaptainCain:: I need a map for this, using words, I think, makes it more difficult to explain the where and when. Anyway, your story about the Diamondsbacks, I think, would fit best after he leaves San An but before Hidalgo. '--Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:14, January 19, 2015 (UTC)' Man, thats alot intricate, okay so my apologies about the screw up with the LSA they sound cool. I got the skeleton for his time in the Northwestern Corridor written up, thus I'll fill it in when I have the story worked out which may take a bit. But it will be done. Anyway if the skeleton I've written raises any questions you may ask me and I'll be glad to fill you in. CaptainCain (talk) 01:29, January 19, 2015 (UTC) OK cool, thanks. Can't wait for it be done. I do have one question: Nueva Administracion Federal? '--Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:47, January 19, 2015 (UTC)' My apologies for being rather slow in writing my section, I've sorta loaded myself up with work and I've finally decided to start planning my characters/factions in word documents instead of relying upon my memory. To be clear I will write my peice...eventually. CaptainCain (talk) 14:44, February 5, 2015 (UTC) Shortening the Page Hey Musie, you asked me if I could shorten my section of Harland's story. Well I don't know how to shorten my section without cutting out key parts of the story. If you'd like to chop it down, by all means go for it, if you want to completely remove my section, that is acceptable also. CaptainCain (talk) 14:49, August 8, 2015(UTC) No way fam! I can't delete that :3. I'll shorten it and if it works for you then we can keep the edit? '--Musiekutsueki (talk) 01:51, August 13, 2015 (UTC)' Yeah sure that works. CaptainCain (talk) 01:54, August 13, 2015 (UTC) Hey Musie, glad to see your still here. I'm gonna request/encourage that you delete everything that I've written on this page that is set in the Northwestern Corridor. Most of the information pertains to factions and locations that are either in development hell or have been deleted and thus create a good deal of inconsistencies within the page. Plus it just tends to drag Harland's story through another needless set of details. I'm still interested in helping you with this page though, and I would be fine about writing about his time in New Orleans as a prize fighter. CaptainCain (talk) 12:15, March 8, 2016 (UTC) Yo CC, roger that. I'll delete the section about Zap City and the Northern Corridor. As far as helping the page, I'm totally welcome to it. I definitely need help. I have his time in the US planned out so I am gonna cover, New Orleans and San Antonio. The big thing needing to be written is Harland's time in Mexico before he went into America. You can write whatever, but I would like you to keep FB's original highlights if you don't mind. '--Musiekutsueki (talk) 22:14, March 8, 2016 (UTC)'